Goini Kingsnake

[Mikelle]

So I was perusing a stores FB page and found a picture of a little baby Goini Kingsnake that was absolutely adorable.

So I started Googling it and have come to realize that there's no real information on this, nor are there ads in our classifieds with them...

Has anybody worked with these guys before? I thought the colours on the little guy was amazing (orangey red with black) but I'm not sure if that's a normal goini or a special type...

Really quite lost with these guys as trying to look them up leads me to the common kingsnake... or some other type of king.

Any information on them is appreciated! (Literally: any.. all I have is a few pictures off of Google that may or may not be adults).

Thank you. =)

[Roy Stockwell]

I've worked with them, and there some around... These are just one of the many renderings of "getula" kings.
Goini are called variable kings, blotched kings and also Apalachicola Kings and are crosses between Eastern chain Kings and Florida kings.. Many hatch with nice orange hues on them but outgrow this. The subspecies "goini" along with striticeps,& temporalis& brooksi are just geographic blends of Lampropeltis getulus, and is no longer considered a valid subspecies.

These snakes were quite popular in the 80's & 90's and were selective bred in this era for maintaining the orange hues to maturity.. The so called "Blaze Goini" tends to keep the nice orange hue.

Like many common colubrids, they have fallen out of favour in recent years. A few Americans still breed the Getulas.

Pretty much all the Lampropeltus getulas, have easy similar husbandry.
Eastern kings, California kings, Florida kings, Desert kings, South Florida Kings, Speckled Kings,Sonoroan kings, Mexican black kings
they're all pretty much the same snake with different paint jobs

Mikelle, the thread directly under this one, features one of the nicest mature goini we've seen in a good while
http://www.reptilescanada.com/showthread.php?t=62730

[Mikelle]

How did I not see that thread... argh.
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Thank you for showing me that.


It's unfortunate that they are crosses, because I'm not sure how I feel about that. =( Probably means that I'll discard the idea of keeping them. Seeing as I couldn't find info on them I was hoping that they'd be some sort of locale that nobody was working with anymore...

Thanks for the information!

[Brennan]

A lot of the prettier goini have been grossed with hypo brooksi to produce a higher orange looking hatchling and some nearly patternless. There are quite a few US breeders who produce really nice looking animals. I think Chris (spankenstein) has some and from what I remember, they are beauties! Rainer (Blue Rosey) breeds some each year.
Ryan

[Mikelle]

Thanks.

Due to the crossbreed effect that I didn't previously know about though I headed off in a different direction(was giving up on that idea) and a friend of mine pointed me to Leons phase thayeri(thanks for that point by the way).




So this is now what I'm curious on and looking out for.

Oh the life of reptile keeping....

Still really disappointed that goini are crosses. =(

[Spankenstyne]

Goini/Meansi/Appalachicola/Blotched etc are all the same snake and used to have their own proper subspecies name, but it seems to be constantly being re-classified. As of now they're lumped in with Florida Kings I believe, even Brooksi are no longer a valid subspecies with all the Florida getula now falling under "floridana" (unless it's changed yet again hah).

"Goini" or "Goins" as they used to be called (and are usually still referred to as for ease of id) are a naturally occurring regional variation (not unlike any other locality type) that many believe are a natural intergrade of Florida and Eastern Kings. They are found in the wild like this and not a man made cross, though as has been pointed out some breeders in the US in particular have been crossing them into other Florida king types to create morphs.

The "Blaze Phase" originated with Gulf Coast Reptiles & is supposed to be "pure" Erythristic goini. Like Roy said, unfortunately not many people seem to be working with getula these days and many that are have been crossing for morphs. I try to keep my snakes pure to the lineage of type but really as with anything in captivity, unless you picked it from the wild yourself we're at the mercy of the word of those producing them before us.

[Brennan]

Thayeri and getula's are both worth collecting, and although I don't like hybrids either, naturally occurring integrades like goini are worth collecting. Pat Dollard (PatD) has Chris Baubel line thayeri up here; which are some of the nicest looking thayeri produced. JamesB also produces some beautiful thayeri.
Ryan

[Spankenstyne]

I think Pat sold off everything when he moved. Maybe he kept a couple of smaller species? Hopefully he'll chime in.

[PATD]

I think Pat sold off everything when he moved. Maybe he kept a couple of smaller species? Hopefully he'll chime in.

Yup - Pat Dollard is no longer keeping or breeding any snakes. Almost my entire collection was sold to one individual though, so he may likely be producing all the species I did and taking over where I left off with a few others....like Baubel line thayeri and pyros, which are as Ryan suggested, some of the best around.
Ryan - are you still keeping/breeding any snakes?
Mikelle, I'm not sure if it matters to you but thayeri are a considerably smaller snake than goini so this might be a factor in your decision. I know if I was looking for a large, impressive kingsnake to keep again - goini would definitely be tops on my list. Chris S - you still breeding these? I recall seeing some of your hatchlings not that long ago and there looked to be some screamers in there
On the other hand Mikelle, if you are planning to get into breeding your kings than one cool thing about thayeri is their polymorphism - you can get a bunch of different patterns and colors among a clutch. As Ryan pointed out - JamesB has some produced some real beauties.

Cheers
PatD

[Brennan]

That's too bad, Pat! I did hear that you moved to ON and saw your fb pic today. Didn't expect that much snow for southern, ON., did ya? I'm out of snakes until I get back into a house. My gf can't stand snakes so until I have a designated reptile room, geckos are my only ally.

If you need a hand getting back in, get in touch and we'll head to Pool's for some beauties that I'm sure he would love for you to have!
Ryan

[Mikelle]

Hmm. If I can find em like that in the wild then I suppose I'm game. Especially if they are still unsure of if it should be its own subspecies or not.

Now I want both of them. ><

I'm very confused by their care though as I found a place that said one square foot of floorspace per foot of snake, and that kings grow to be ~4 feet long, and as such a 4x2 enclosure is big enough.

I'm really disliking that I am naturally drawn to animals that are hardish to find. How am I supposed to spend my money on a Leons phase thayeri girl and a Goini girl now? This isn't an "ad" for purchasing but if somebody is breeding them I'd love a PM to discuss what they are like.

Also: I saw that thayeri throw random patterns and thought that was WAY too cool, which has just made me want them more. :P
I just am sad that I can't track down real info on their temperament and care needs...

[Brennan]

I kept brooksi (floridana) for years and although they do need some space, you can get away with keeping adults in 28 quart bins. That's your typical adult colubrid bin. Average is 22" long, 12" wide and 4.5" tall, approx.

I say brooksi because their care and size is almost identical to that of goini. If you feed your goins well for 3 years before breeding, these will be small. The longer bins are more appropriate as these snakes will feed every 3 days if you allow them and will take small rats as adults. Smaller bins will stink up quickly and become really humid if you aren't able to clean their feces up readily.

They handle well and are my favourite colubrid, hands down. Females will double clutch and throw large clutches.

Thayeri are much smaller and less likely to bite as goini will readily mistake your fingers for food. PM Pat as the person he sold to will produce some amazing thayeri from his Baubel animals. There are so many variations, as you said, that don't even exist in Canada. Thayeri would be a worth while project!
Ryan

[Mikelle]

Thanks for the info. =)

[Brennan]

Teaser

[Mikelle]

So not nice. xD
I was just getting ready for bed and that was so pretty I'm all excited about the possibility of getting one.

What a gorgeous snake.
How old is that?