Results 41 to 55 of 55
11-30-2013, 12:49 PM #41
11-30-2013, 12:50 PM #42
I love a good conspiracy theory. Unfortunately life is usually much more pedestrian and mundane.
Are you ready for the Zombie Apocalypse? Look to your right. That is your weapon.
11-30-2013, 12:57 PM #43
but back on point, im already a member so im not fighting against canherp, but i personally think rob should just put in these proposals to help out other municipalities, but as it stands right now his giants are legal. do you really think you have to worry rob??
11-30-2013, 01:49 PM #44
Many people can't see it from the perspective of a targeted species keeper.
I'll use a non-reptile example, even though I know nothing about motorcycles:
You belong to the Suzuki Motorcycle Club of Canada. Their mandate is to protect the rights of Suzuki motorcycle riders.
In 2014, an organization wants to ban the use of Suzuki's because of the number of deaths caused by high speed. The Suzuki Club meets with legislators and says, "Don't ban all Suzuki, just high performance motorcycles."
You own a Hayabusa motorcycle, a high performance Suzuki motorcycle.
Some people on this thread:
1. Its better to ban the Hayabusas than loose all Suzuki.
2. Hayabusa owners, should accept the ban now, then lobby to have the ban amended later.
3. Issues of speed should be addressed, not the type of motorcycle.
4. Hayabusa owners should save their time and money to lobby independently of the Suzuki Club.
So if you use Rob as an example, if he owns a Hayabusa. Hayabusas are currently legal where he lives, but he knows that if the legislation regarding motorcycles was ever reviewed the Suzuki Club would come to town and lobby for him to loose his hayabusa so that others can keep their Suzuki.
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11-30-2013, 06:15 PM #45
It's been said a few times over by now. There are many municipalities with differing agendas. Rural issues are different than urban issues. If a person lives in municipality with no bylaws, great.
CanHerp doesn't have a constitution. A constitution is problematic in that it adheres an organization to follow one set in stone path. We are a private sector organization and have flexibility to manage our proposals to the various levels of government. This has been already been addressed.
11-30-2013, 06:19 PM #46
Except motorcycles aren't living beings that can be victims of animal abuse and a person has to be actively engaged with the motorcycle for it to crash into something.
Also from my understanding CanHerp only suggests banning the high performance bikes when there would be a ban on all Suzuki's... therefore letting Rob at least have his non-high performance bikes even if he has to temporarily give up on having a high performance bike.
The ideal is to deal with the static issues involving animal safety but that isn't going to happen right away because the general public hates snakes.
I understand that it sucks wanting one of these critters and even potentially having them in your home and being part of the family........ however... if it's a total ban or half the things banned, banning half leads to an opportunity for improvement for the future.
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12-01-2013, 03:19 AM #47
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It kinda sounds to me like all Rob wants is someone from Canherp to say, we will support your right to own the snakes you choose to own.
Why all this talk about municipalities and legislation etc. He wants to know that if he becomes a member of this group, they will be in his corner when it comes to fight.
Would anyone else expect something different? Why would he fight for a group when he believes if push comes to shove he will be "sacrificed" for the "greater good"
Am I wrong? Did I misread the previous posts?
12-01-2013, 03:24 AM #48
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One other thing, I don't understand how so many people have the idea that as long as only a few things get banned, it's not so bad, at least we still have a,b,c left. I believe that once we start agreeing for certain things to be banned, it opens the door for the list of banned species to grow and grow. For the record I do not even own a snake, so my viewpoint is completely unbiased in this regard.
12-01-2013, 10:00 AM #49
I'm having a hard time with this.
Someone says "CanHerp doesn't support Giant keepers"
CanHerp says "We support all keepers, and ideally we would like government to not ban any species"
Reply from "Someone": "But I'll never support an organization who doesn't support Giant Keepers"
The way *I* see it. And yes, even though I am a supporter of CanHerp, my thoughts are my own, and I am entitled to them. I don't need to get called out again fro having my own opinion,when it may differ slightly from an organization I support.
Anyways...the way *I* see it...I personally cannot understand how the "Giant" keepers are ok with having themselves lumped in with the "Hot" keepers. Do you all really want government to decide if you can keep giants, ONLY IF they allow people who keep hots, to keep them? Really?
I personally, am fine with the segregation. Just as I am fine with the segregation of Reptile Keepers and Big Cat Keepers. We are all exotic keepers after all.
The fact of the matter is, that there is already a vast number of places where you can't keep Giants, Hots, or Crocs legally. That is a fight that is MUCH harder than the fight to keep corns, kings, and small Boidae.
I'm not interested in having government throw out the baby with the bath water, when they look at proposals. I am completely fine with CanHerp adjusting their position based on the municipality, or government body they are dealing with. I know full well they are doing their best for ALL keepers, and choosing the fight they have a chance of winning.
They last thing I want *RIGHT NOW*, is the dollars I spend, to fight fights that have a little chance of winning.
If all the herp community put the dollars, and time towards CanHerp that I know the board members are personally doing, we COULD in fact win most fights....but it appears that the agenda of many is just the opposite, and serves only to discredit, and entice others not to join.
And to those who just spew their ideas on the forum. I personally have gotten Grant on the phone, and discussed with him the viability of some ideas I have for registry systems and the like. Grant, Anthony, and the rest of the board are quite approachable, and if you LISTEN to them, and talk to them, you will dispel much of the BS that is thrown out there.Proud Canherp Accredited Member
12-01-2013, 12:21 PM #50
- St Catharines, ON
- Blog Entries
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My lord, thank you for that Robert. I was starting to see red my friend. Well put. It's so frustrating when it feels like you are dealing with foot stomping and fist shaking rather than rational thought. A military man should realize that a fighting retreat is better than utter obliteration sometimes. I for one am not willing die standing at a line in the sand on this one and this is coming from a guy that got a new house in hopes of keeping a Burmese Python one day. lol. Join Up folks...
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12-01-2013, 12:39 PM #51
CanHerp is in every responsible reptile keepers corner and as a responsible animal keepers they would advise us on where and how to proceed. If staying home and not being involved is advisable and helpful to the process of favourable legislation we will gladly do so. If a person or group are getting involved in the process of fighting, advocating or making proposals to amendments and have questions on the legal process, need legal research, references, and support etc we will make every effort to assist. It is not always advantageous for an out side agency to be in the front line.
At the core we are engaging with the political process and with rights there are responsibilities. It's the bad press, public reaction, and the passing of highly restrictive legislation that punishes the responsible and does not change irresponsible behaviour, tragic events and the resulting sensational bad press. Let's assume everyone here agrees.
If a person chooses to own a high speed motorcycle they are still bound by the law to obey the High Way Traffic act. Let alone pay the massive fees, permits and insurance costs associated with the activity. That is what a permit system looks like. Is riding a motorcycle a right or a privilege? As CanHerp has engaged legal advice, the question regarding reptile ownership being a protected right under the constitution is not a forgone conclusion. To be on the safe side we regard animal ownership as a privilege.
We are being as honest as we possibly can in sharing the results of the political process. CanHerp does "support your right to own the snakes you choose to own." Our members are as subject to arbitrary, bad and unfavourable laws as everyone else. That is why they join.
With ownership there are reasonable requirements that need to be met. We are not going say we will fight for your rights knowing full well that when push comes to shove an urban city council will never permit John Doe to keep a collection of vipers in his apartment. We won't fight a losing battle because it feels good to protest and collect membership fees. It's bad business, disingenuous and unfair to the membership. Asking for a one size fits all policy in every jurisdiction is unrealistic to the objective of responsible animal ownership. If John D. is the most meticulous venomous snake keeper in his apartment block, a CanHerp member, an outstanding citizen and is obeying the law we will advocate and work for that person to the best of our ability and budget. If the citizens vote in a city council that votes his activity out the door the final decision is not up to us. It is a very tough pill to swallow. The voters and ultimately city council decides and reworking after those rulings is very difficult. To fight unfavourable municipal legislation a helpful tool would be a decision by a provincial judge that the keeping of the contentious animals is safe. Even then it is incumbent upon the lawyers working on behalf of reptile keepers (working at $1000/hr) to prove that with all proper qualifications, protocols, procedures, under the right conditions etc to make the case. The onus is on us, not them, to prove it.
We will always advocate for responsible animal ownership.
Every citizen has the right to question and research electoral candidates, to vote, to contact elected representatives and make their views known, arrange meetings, engage other like minded people, take out ads for their position, hold conferences, make submissions to council, and work to get voters to see their point of view. CanHerp is the opportunity for people to do this. I know of an Ottawa Valley municipality that doesn't even allow snakes over 2 feet as normal pets within it's city limits. When push comes to shove reptile keepers and CanHerp aren't the ones voting on the final law. It is up to those citizens in that jurisdiction to begin the process of change. Our membership and it's board want to be there to help them.
12-06-2013, 10:29 AM #52
- Halifax NS
- Thanked 11 Times in 3 Posts
First allow me to introduce myself, some of you know me personally, some have heard of me, most have probably not heard of me. My name is Mike Macdonald, curator of the Maritime Reptile Zoo in Halifax Nova Scotia. I have been reading through a lot of the posts over the last week or so and gathering my thoughts on the current situation that the hobby is faced with. Reality is that following the tragic events in NB, governments across Canada are now looking to revise their current, or adopting new, legislation regarding exotic animals kept in captivity. (Mainly “potentially” dangerous species such as giants, hots and crocs) Many provinces and municipalities already prohibit the ownership of these species. Some offer a permit system and do not. We have been working with the Nova Scotia Department of Natural Resources for the last 3 years to update the current regulations here in our province.
The main problem that groups like CanHerp is facing is that after the incident in NB the general public, animal activists and politicians are now calling for these species to be banned all together. We have proposed legislation to our gov’t that includes a permit system for keepers who demonstrate the knowledge and ability to keep these animals properly and safely. Before August 5th they were open to this proposal and had issued private permits to atleast 1 private keeper. Since then their position is no permit will be issued. We have also reached out to other provinces to offer our assistance in updating their legislation and have been told that a permit system is not an option at this time, hopefully this will change in the future when things calm down. Another problem is the fact that there is a huge patchwork of regulations, policies, and bylaws across the country. This problem does need to be addressed and have them pieced together to create more uniform and fair regulations. Personally the only solution I can see is legislation that includes a permit system. This would in turn allow those who are capable of keeping the species, and keep them responsibly, to keep them, while relieving the govt of liability.
Another thing I notice is that there is a lot of, I, Me, My going on. Yes we all want to keep the privilege of owning these animals but it is not all about the keepers and we really to put the focus on the animals. There is a huge question of what is going to happen to the thousands of animals that will be effected by these new regulations. 1 way to help convince the law makers to implement a permit system is to show them that by passing new legislation they create and even bigger problem. (What to do with all the animals). Currently there is no solution that would be both morally acceptable or effective. Zoos and rescue sanctuaries can not meet the demands that new legislation will bring and enforcement will become a nightmare.
Now if everyone can get on the same page and focus on the pros and cons of what new legislation will bring then we can all go to the table with something to fight with.
12-05-2015, 01:48 AM #53
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Following along the thoughts here, something many miss that our local council was responsive too, was that by banning them you stop legitmate keepers from having them and drive the careless ones underground and make it more dangerous. After all, If a person has a cobra that is already illegal, then it gets loose and they can be charged a large fine....does anyone really think they are going to report it missing...... of o=course not. However if they are permitted and the animal is logged....accountability. You see the folks who the bylaws are intended to stop, rarely care about obeying laws, or the welfare of others in general. Just saying.
08-11-2016, 12:29 AM #54
We won't fight a losing battle because it feels good to protest and collect membership fees. It's bad business, disingenuous and unfair to the membership.
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Last edited by EricWI; 10-30-2016 at 01:27 AM.
08-11-2016, 04:25 PM #55
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Ill be frank. I have seen pics of the actual conversation where "canherp" representive bluntly states that canherp does not agree with the sale of venomous reptiles, despite the fact of them being legal to have in 75 percent of Ontario. Keep in mind this stance was taken despite banned animals (located in a place with clear bans) such as boas and pythons. being openly sold on there classifieds here and on their facebook sites. So when Grant or anyone else start with the political correct, we support but the government wont listen stuff. Well I formally call bull and if any of the staff of Canherp would like, that conversation can be posted. Until this organization ceases to be Grant Crossmans personal cash cow, personal selfinterest lobbing fund and marketing tool, I will not support it. If everyone else ia ok with them spending your money on their personal agendas, thats fine. A organization like this, that professes to be the voice of the reptile community, who is using the platform to push a selfcentered agenda, is more dangrous than helpful. When "Canherp" decides to make some changes and support my end of the hobby, ill consider supporting canherp. Which just as a note, i seriously considered doing before the anti venomous thing was so boldly proclaimed. Id i am wrong and the staff have mispoke by all means lets sort out the truth, i have the proof. Its time for Grant to take a position, so we all know exactly where Canherp really stands
Last edited by hawking; 08-11-2016 at 04:44 PM.