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01-15-2014, 02:07 AM #1
When feeding live goes wrong *EXTREMELY GRAPHIC*
This was posted over at Reddit yesterday. Only details are that it was a new owner and he dropped in the mouse and went to sleep only to wake up to this.
Not for the squeamish or faint of heart.
01-15-2014, 08:18 AM #2
Ya that's horrific. I certainly hope the owner quickly and humanely uthinzed that snake. Right after they went to grab there camera so they could take some pictures to post on the Internet that is.Visit us for all your reptile housing needs at http://www.herphouses.com/
01-15-2014, 08:32 AM #3
These are the type of people that hurt this hobby.
It may have been an error on the owners part, an extremely bad one at that. They should know better - research / knowledge is key with any of our animals.
But to post this picture on the internet, just awful. As Jason said I hope the owner looked after the best interest of the snake.
01-15-2014, 09:26 AM #4
I can think of a lot of not so nice things to say right now, but like Jason said I hope they had that snake euthanized. Terrible.
I don't like to feed live - it's a last resort, but if I have to there are 2 of us in the room and we're watching everything that happens. I also have a pair of feeding tongs and a small collapsible snake hook just in case the little bugger thinks it needs to have a bite on the snake. Most times I don't need any of it cause whomever is eating is spot on and the mouse is dead seconds after it hits the bin. What can I say? I'm paranoid about feeding live - all of these live feeding gone wrong pictures make a person very wary about what they are doing.Stephanie
"Have you ever noticed that salvation, much like your car keys, is found where and when you least expect it?"
01-15-2014, 09:48 AM #5
99% of the snakes out there being fed live could be switched over to FT very easily with a little time & effort, but hey that would take both time & effort right.
Nuff Said Mark
01-15-2014, 10:07 AM #6
This is the main reason why I try to only sell FROZEN Rodents.
I have many people approach me for live, and turn them away because I know accidents can happen with live no matter how care full you are.
Near North Rodent and Reptile Supply
01-15-2014, 10:47 AM #7
Everyone assumes this is a horrible owner who doesn't care about their animal that this has happened to. That is until something happens to one of their own. Some snakes will only take live, I agree with Mark that the majority can and will switch to F/T with patience and time. Don't be soo quick to attack this person over this. I know first hand it can happen to anyone.
01-15-2014, 11:01 AM #8
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I always warn people and try to convert them to the frozen alternative the best I can. The best thing we can do as hobbyist is recommend frozen, promote frozen and feed frozen. At the pet store where I work half the the customers don't know that frozen mice exist and thats just sad to me. I always bring up the financial, storage and health benefits that frozen mice have over life and 90 percent of the time i get people to switch or at least try it. It's a small start, but it is still a start.
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Anthony S (01-19-2014)
01-15-2014, 11:22 AM #9
P.S. This isn't a quick bite followed by immediate separation. No one would begrudge an owner if that happened.
01-15-2014, 11:23 AM #10
Sure there are lots of snakes that will only take live, I have had a couple myself. But to throw an adult mouse in with a small ball python (or any size snake for that matter) and leave it and go to sleep is horribly negligent.
Maybe the person had not done research into this and did not know that a mouse could do this to a snake, that is entirely possible. But to go and grab a camera to take a picture of the mouse actually eating the poor snake is the lowest thing I've seen in a while. How about help the snake first and put it out of its misery instead of documenting it. Low. This person deserves to be attacked just for that.
01-15-2014, 11:23 AM #11
I personally do not even consider a snake to be established until it is eating FT on its own.
Most snakes produced here NEVER even see a live rodent EVER.
I have not used live even with fresh hatched neonates for years now, Mark
01-15-2014, 11:31 AM #12
- Edmonton, Alta
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As well, if I left a live rodent in overnight, I would be a horrible owner. Full stop, no shades of grey, no moral ambiguity. I have failed in my responsibility as a keeper (lucky for that person, it's the snake that got punished, not them!).
You'd think after this many generations of captive ball pythons that we would've selected for the ones that would feed reliably in captivity on prekilled prey.
01-15-2014, 12:16 PM #13Visit us for all your reptile housing needs at http://www.herphouses.com/
01-15-2014, 12:27 PM #14
Many baby Pythons will not eat for anywhere from 1-4 months after hatching & then start feeding just fine after that. When they are READY too.
I typically don't even offer baby Pythons prey for the first month even.
Mind you that requires both time & patience neither of which are very common anymore.
More often than not it seems it is all about how fast can they produce them & start selling them.
Must recoup investment as fast as possible afterall, Mark
edit - they will thrive on their fat yolk guts for quite some time, they will poop multiple times from it & will even go into 2nd sheds on occassion all PRIOR taking a meal.
All they did prior exiting the egg was "eat" afterall, thus why it is important to let them finish their "first meals" & exit on their own when they are ready too NOT start cutting on day # __
Last edited by GONESNAKEE!; 01-15-2014 at 01:23 PM.
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Dyesub Dave (01-24-2014)
01-15-2014, 01:16 PM #15
The pipping of eggs is definitely contributing to it but how much it is hard to say.
I think a lot of animals probably should have ended up in the freezers of breeders instead of being introduced into breeding programs.
We usually get 100% hatch rates or very high with this species and others. Natural predation and natural death become a lot of animals fate even before the first 6 month period.
We removed mother nature, now the strong dont only survive, but the weak too.
I agree with what Mark does, no feeding for the first month. If the animal is healthy and has a full yolk belly why mess with natures perfection.
01-15-2014, 02:52 PM #16"Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence"
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01-15-2014, 07:24 PM #17
Out of curiosity, what makes everyone so sure the snake was alive when the photo was taken? Is it possible that it died in the position or would the mouth have closed if that was the case?
Also, what is the humane way to euthanize a snake? I can think of some quick methods, but I'd doubt they would be be generally acceptable, so how do people accomplish this if they must?
01-15-2014, 08:06 PM #18
I'm not even sure that snake was dead when the photo was taken. They can survive an alarming amount of trauma.
I agree that not enough selection is happening for animals that eat well and that will readily take f/t. I feel there is a genetic component to it, in many cases. I have a couple lines of sand boas here that produce babies which readily take f/t as their first meal, and they're precious to me. I always offer f/t as a first meal, and I don't do the 'assist feeding' thing with neonates.
Regarding humane euthanasia of a snake, it's never a pleasant thing for the uneducated and inexperienced. If you are squeamish, sedation and an injection at the vet is the best idea. The AVMA (2013) guidelines for humane euthanasia (page 76 of the link here) state that blunt force trauma to the head followed by decapitation and/or pithing of the brain is acceptable IF the person performing it is experienced. CO2 may also be used, but death needs to be closely confirmed, because reptiles are quite tolerant of high CO2 conditions and are capable of holding their breath for a long time, depending on species. Hypothermia/slow freezing is not acceptable unless the animal is already pretty dead or has been very heavily anesthetized. Wimps like to freeze live and awake snakes because it's an out of sight/out of mind thing for them.Christine A., B.Sc., RVT
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01-15-2014, 08:23 PM #19
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As we keep saying there is no reason to be feeding CB ball pythons live food BUT if live food is left in with a snake it is important to provide food and water for the prey.
Based on the set up in the pic i would guess he's new to the hobby and really had no clue.
01-15-2014, 08:29 PM #20
If the snake refuses to eat it, in it goes with another snake.
That is honestly the stupidest comment I have ever read on any reptile forum.
Rob"Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence"