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02-11-2017, 11:28 PM #1
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Update with new NIX questions...
Original post below the line.
New question - so if Permethrin is the active ingredient that kills the mites and comes in the NIX - has anyone tried any other sources of permethrin? I have my pesticide license and can get concentrate permethrin for really cheap. Just not sure if it has been tested at all? It is meant to be applied to plants, I think it may have petroleum solvent as a carrier though.
For now I am just going to use the NIX method. And maybe do a test with the other kind if nobody has the answer.
So yay. It would seem that I came home recently with mites. The only snakes I have purchased recently came from the CRBE (baby redtail boa, and multiple ball pythons) but it is also possible that they came home on me from somewhere. Either way, end result is the same.
My snakes have mites.
It started with the babies, and then seems to have moved into the sub adults. Joy. *facepalm*
I have been working my way around the room, I was hoping it would stay on the baby shelves since they are physically separate from the rest of the shelves. Nope. Found it in the baby shelves, and started there. Dismantle each critter keeper, wash in hot soapy water, allow to dry, line with paper towel, plastic hide (imitation rock, also washed in hot soapy water and dried), ceramic water dish. Soak baby python in water for ten minutes. Return snake to cage. Repeat for all cages.
The mites came back as if I had done nothing. I don't think the water soak killed them.
Repeat the same process. This time, I also sprayed down all the shelves with permethrin and allowed to dry before putting cages back. Cleaned all cages as before, soaked all baby pythons as before, then dipped each one in water with a bit of food-grade vegetable oil. Possibly a bad idea, the weakest baby ball died. All the baby corn snakes also died (they were in a separate room than the permethrin treated shelf), within two weeks of dipping. Rest seem to be healthy, but ALL SNAKES ARE NOW OFF THEIR FEED.
All my snakes are off their feed. Only the babies have been treated, but tonight when I offered food again and all the snakes refused, I took a closer look at my sub adult butter also has mites. So I am going to start treating the adults as well.
I will be moving them into bare tanks (glass aquariums) or plastic critter keepers (I don't have enough critter keepers for all).
My plan is now: Wash enclosures with hot soapy water and allow to dry. Soak snakes in warm water. But lots of questions...
Permethrin should be non toxic if I spray the shelves, allow to dry, and the snakes never come into physical contact with the shelves. Right?
How long should I soak the snakes, in a water bath? Is ten minutes enough? Thirty minutes?
All my snakes are off their feed, both those dipped in oil and those not dipped. Are the mites irritating enough to put a ball off their food? AND a red tail boa? They are refusing even live gerbils.
Should I be dipping in oil? What sort of oils are known to be safe. Google said vegetable oil should be fine, but all my baby corns are dead.
Makes me concerned about listening to google anymore.
Should I dip in dilute betadine, would that help?
Any other tips are helpful. I've dealt with mammal mites before, but that was easy - treat everything with permethrin, problem solved.
Some sites said to treat the snake with ivermectin. I have that on hand, but have no idea about dosage. It is the 10% solution. I hesitate to go this route, my carefully raised females were supposed to breed this year for the first time, I've got three years invested in my snakes I don't want to risk further losses, but I really need this under control.
Last edited by ReptiJenn; 02-20-2017 at 07:18 PM. Reason: more info needed
02-12-2017, 01:43 PM #2
Order some Reptile Relief off Amazon, get the 1gal jug. best stuff to use.
in the meantime use nix lice shampoo, 15ml to a litre of water. this mixture can be safely sprayed on snakes. youll need to remove all bedding and decorations for a while, while you treat. also spray the nix mixture on outside of cages floor walls ect. mites can travel all over.
google up nix for snake mites and the reptile species your treating ! some reptiles species don't handle pyrethrins very well.Don Patterson Reptiles
02-16-2017, 09:51 PM #3
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Thanks for the advice! I'm going to google Nix now... I've got Ball Pythons for sure that have bugs, and wouldn't be surprised if it is in my Taiwan Beauties and Corns.
Here is another question. Do reptile mites die if frozen? So far I have taken the 'fancy' enclosures, and put them outside to freeze until I can dismantle and clean them properly. Moved the snakes into plain bins until this problem is all cleared up. I'm planning to wait for a thaw as spring approaches, before tackling the now-frozen terrariums. But if mites die by freezing, that'll make my job a lot easier.
02-20-2017, 11:17 AM #4
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not sure if anything will survive if frozen ?? as Don mentioned, be careful some smaller species are delicate when it comes to NIX, Asian rat snakes are one of them..
here's a full article I copy pasted for you, one you might have seen in your search..
Nix was designed to treat human head lice and their nits (eggs). The one characteristic that separates the Nix method for treating snake mites from other mite remedies is its effectiveness at killing live mites AND mite eggs. All other mite remedies to my knowledge do not destroy mite eggs. As such, I have found the Nix method to be extremely effective at eradicating serious mite infestations. I even know a local pet store manager who sells several commercially produced mite remedies, yet uses the Nix method on imported snakes arriving at his store. Another pro to using Nix is economics. Around $12 will produce 4 litres of solution – much more than the largest private collection will ever require.
There exists a popular reptile care site on the Internet that discusses the toxicity of Nix, but in the two cases cited, Nix was spread over the infested snakes in full concentration. Common sense should dictate that reptiles and amphibians coming in direct contact with any fully concentrated chemical that does not occur in their natural environment would yield deleterious, if not downright fatal, results. The use of Nix discussed below involves a diluted solution (1 part Nix to 68 parts water) that has never produced adverse reactions in any python or boa in my collection over the course of 8 years. In fact, some snakes in my collection are proactively treated every 6 months as they make appearances at semi-annual reptile shows and I am not willing to risk the chance of mites from other exhibitors making their way into my collection. Even routine treatments on these boas and pythons over the course of several years have yet to result in any negative effects.
· Spray bottle. Preferably one that has never been used, or at the very least, one that has never contained harsh chemicals and has been thoroughly rinsed.
· 56 g (59 ml) bottle of Nix. I have only ever found this one particular size of Nix, which can be sourced at most drug stores and some pharmacy sections of grocery stores for anywhere from $6-$12.
· 4L (1 Gallon) jug of distilled water. Distilled water should be used to extend the shelf life of the solution. With distilled water, the solution’s effectiveness is expected to last up to 12 months as long as the solution is stored at room temperature and in a covered box (light breaks down the active ingredient found in Nix). Although, with one treatment and sound quarantine practices, the first treatment should be all that is necessary.
Creating the Nix Solution
· Pour the Nix cream into the 4L jug of distilled water. Nix is a fairly thick cream substance, so it may take a couple minutes to transfer as much of the cream into the jug of distilled water as possible.
· Replace the cap on the jug of distilled water and shake until the Nix cream is evenly distributed throughout the water. Again, this may take a few minutes due to the thick consistency of Nix.
· Pour the Nix solution into a spray bottle.
Eradicating Snake Mites
· If snake mites are only found on one snake or only in one snake enclosure, it is wise to conclude that mites have infested ALL snakes and their enclosures that are contained within the same room. Mites may have also transferred to snakes housed in another room by “hitchhiking on your hands or clothes. Therefore, absolutely all snakes and their terrariums should be treated to ensure 100% effectiveness.
· First, remove the snake from the enclosure and place in a Rubbermaid container. Spray the snake liberally with the Nix solution. Do not avoid spraying this solution on their head, eyes and heat pits – in fact, this is where mites commonly hide so spraying the head area is essential.
· Remove all substrate from the terrarium and throw away. Do not leave the garbage bag containing this old substrate anywhere in the house.
· Spray the entire enclosure, inside and out, including all cage furniture (branches, hide boxes, water bowl, etc.) and glass viewing area. Make sure that all corners and crevices are well covered with Nix solution, as this is where mites and their eggs are often hiding. Even spray the outside back of the cage and a 2-foot perimeter around the cage on the floor. The Nix residue that forms after drying is thought to even be effective at killing mites hiding out elsewhere in the room that may attempt to re-enter the snake cage.
· Replace the substrate with paper, preferably paper towel, as it is easy to spot mites on this. It is essential to use paper until you are absolutely certain that full eradication has been accomplished. I suggest waiting 3 weeks after the last live mite is spotted before using non-paper substrate.
· Remove water bowl from cage and replace, filled with water, 24 hours later. This ensures that the Nix solution is not washed off the snake by soaking in the water bowl before the active ingredient has had a chance to destroy all mites hiding under its scales.
· Return the snake to its enclosure and spray it, the cage, furniture and paper one more time.
· When the snake defecates during treatment, remove the paper and clean the messed area as usual, but be sure to re-spray the cleaned area and new paper with Nix solution.
· Repeat in 5-7 days twice, for a total of 3 treatments. With all likelihood, the last live mite will perish within a few hours of the first treatment, but repeating treatment is good practice in case the outbreak is severe and mites are able to re-enter cages.
Any snake entering a collection should be quarantined for 2-3 months, ideally in a completely separate room from where other snakes are housed, but at the very least in a separate cage. It should be assumed that any new snake has mites, regardless of how well respected the previous owner or pet store is. I have personally been let down on several occasions by leading breeders in our hobby, and from personal friends. It is my experience that employing the “better safe than sorry” approach is of paramount importance in ensuring mite breakouts never occur.
Given the above assumption new acquisitions, in addition to their cage and cage furniture, should be treated with Nix solution 3 times (one full treatment every 5-7 days). Same should hold true when a snake enters your colony for a breeding loan, even if it is your own specimen that was lent out and is returning. As previously mentioned, it is also wise to treat snakes that attend shows, where other exhibitors and spectators may have mite infestations. With the large number of people that handle your animals, or even just touch the enclosure in which your snakes are housed, the chance that a mite is hitchhiking on at least one of these snake enthusiasts at the show is good. Don’t become complacent and cut corners in this area, or you may find yourself right back where you started.
Cage furniture and substrate purchased at pet stores can also serve as mite vectors and should be treated with caution. Mite-free substrate can be purchased from pet stores that do not carry reptiles, from a livestock feed stores, or from landscape centres. Newly purchased cage furniture should be sprayed liberally with Nix solution. Highly porous cage furniture (wood hide boxes, branches, etc.) should be soaked in a 10% bleach solution for a day, then rinsed thoroughly, sprayed with Nix solution, and allowed to dry for a week.